163: CarlH - Internet Monsters

WEBVTT

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[SPEAKER_03]: Listener, have you ever thought about the people on the internet that you've interacted with?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Unknowingly, that her monsters, those hiding and plain sight, that otherwise seem normal, or doing horrific things?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think about that a lot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think about how some of the most popular episodes I've made are related to internet criminals.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Killers of users, et cetera.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, why is that?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think that there's something tied to it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: A little bit of this idea that we're interacting with these people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It unsettles us.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It uners us.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that you can be speaking with a serial killer or someone doing horrific things to their family.

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[SPEAKER_03]: These true crime cases that cover such incidents kind of pulls the veil back and gives people a taste of that unsettling feeling.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Today's episode is about something like that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to spoil it, but do the popular request and demand.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This is an internet related case.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There is something to that though, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think about the Brian Coburger case and how he interacted with several YouTubers that were popular, who then found out that he watched their content.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And how that left them feeling uneasy.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's that sense of unease.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It eliminates that feeling of shelter that we have around us.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That leaves us feeling safe and not vulnerable.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That what we know around us is the truth.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think about when I was a teenager.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I used to walk to my friends.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes very late in the night.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're talking midnight when I am type deal when I was getting into trouble.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I remember one time I was walking on this sidewalk and along the side of me were these trees and I remember one night I heard something in the trees.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like strange chanting.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And immediately in my mind, all these thoughts flooded of all the movies I've seen, cults and everything else.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, I don't know what came over me, but I kind of snuck up close to the trees and I looked through to see what I can see.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And what I saw was a man dressed in regular clothes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But he was shaking his head, left to right violently, and mumbling unintelligible words.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I don't know what happened if I made a noise or something, but he stopped suddenly and just kind of proclaimed what?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And looked around.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And my heart beat out of my chest.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want this guy to know that I saw whatever the hell he was up to.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so I quietly pulled back

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[SPEAKER_03]: and like tiptoed my way down the sidewalk in the other direction.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When I told my friends about it later, they didn't believe me because it was so far-fetched.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now looking back, I don't know, I feel like if I was making something up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be more interesting.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, that story stuck with me for a while.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That experience.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because I never knew what the hell that guy was doing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why he was walking a trail in the woods alone.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Shaking his head left to ride a mind unintelligible words in the dark.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's the thing, in the dark.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's images of

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[SPEAKER_03]: people wondering abandoned homes and factories late at night doing who knows what something about thinking of people just up to whatever you couldn't possibly know I don't know that always bothered me that this guy could be living a normal life with his family he could have kids

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[SPEAKER_03]: But at night, he walks the trails in pitch black dark, making unintelligible noises.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And his family would never know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not like what he was doing was a crime.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, I think that's part of what this internet stuff taps into.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When we're online, we're connected to these people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Whether we like it or not.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When we find out, someone that we may have interacted with was up to no good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Their presence in our wife is unfortunately felt.

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[SPEAKER_03]: With that said, let's get on with it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome, listener.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad you're here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Take a seat.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Next to the fire.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Obscura.

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[SPEAKER_01]: where we shine a light on the dark.

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[SPEAKER_03]: On July, twenty-sixth, two thousand twelve, Reddit user Carl H. was distinguished as a editor of the day.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That title reserved for quasi-selebrity Reddit users.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You see, listener.

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[SPEAKER_03]: During its early days, the website Reddit was a smaller community.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Prominent Reddit users would gain a unique status on the site.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl H. Quickly grew popular as a Reddit user because he enjoyed spending his free time teaching Reddit users programming.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'll play a little bit of his YouTube channel for you now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Computer Science for everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Carl Harold, and I've been a professional programmer for over fifteen years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In this course, I'm going to teach you how to begin writing your own computer software.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Later in the course, when we do start writing actual programs, we'll be using this program to do so.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is called Code Blocks, and I'll show you how to set that up so you can actually write and run your own programs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But don't get too much of a hurry, though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of material that we need to cover before you'll be able to actually write your own programs, but we'll get there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now don't worry if you've tried to learn programming before or it might be that you learn the basics of a programming language but you're not able to actually sit down and make something useful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There is a big difference between knowing a programming language such as what a book teaches and knowing how to actually make usable software.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Most programming books and tutorials just focus on how to use a particular language as syntax, but they don't explain beyond this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As a result, there are many people out there who have learned programming which effectively means that they can write a program so long as it consists of displaying some text on the screen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So what is the missing link?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is libraries.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Libraries are the tools that you need as a programmer to actually make useful software.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In short, libraries provide you with functions that you can call rather easily from inside your programs to actually put your knowledge to work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For example, nothing in the core language of C gives you the ability to draw a circle, but a graphics library very well might have a function called draw circle.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is how advanced applications and games are built.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The libraries themselves are put together and packaged for programmers to use, and then the language serves as an interface between the programmer and the libraries.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We will be spending a great deal of time working with these types of libraries to build real, usable programs and games in this course.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Keep in mind that unlike a programming book, this is an interactive course, and if you get stuck or need help along the way, just feel free to ask your questions in the discussion areas, whether on YouTube or at the website computer science for everyone.com.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Also, keep in mind that this course and all materials offered are offered free of charge.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoy this course, and if you have any questions, feel free to post them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He did this for free, and was showered with praise and adoration as a result.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Quickly, regard it as one of the most beloved members of Reddit on the science.

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[SPEAKER_03]: These days, his name rarely, if ever, comes up, and we'll get to that later.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In a Q&A, they did back to two thousand twelve.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl H stated he was thirty-one years old.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He was male, and he loved living in New York.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He explained that he was married, loved cats, hot chocolate, veal parmesan, game of thrones, Babylon five, and the video game Starcraft.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl H told the users of Reddit that silly situations made him laugh.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now he hates willfully ignorant people that his major regret and life was taking loans at twenty one years old.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He described the most important thing in the world to him as family.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Later on, Carl H made a post to Reddit, explaining that a nasty rumor had spread online about him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl H explained that the rumor obviously wasn't true, and that he needed the aid of Reddit users to extinguish this untrue eye.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The dirty eye was smearing the reputation of a beloved Reddit user after all.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, with the aid of Reddit, many Reddit users create it posts using Carl Hitches full name, Carl Philip Harold, to knock the rumor out of the Google search results.

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[SPEAKER_03]: A few days later, Carl returned to Reddit.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This time, to thank the users of the site.

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[SPEAKER_03]: His post ran.

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[SPEAKER_03]: A few days ago, I posted and asked Reddit, asking if anyone could help me to remove or fight against a Y. That has been the number one search result for my name.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and damaging my reputation for over five years.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many of you took it upon yourselves to help me by posting links and content with my name all over the internet via Reddit, Twitter and just about everywhere else.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Amazingly, so many of you did this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That for part of June, Thursday, my name was actually the fifth most searched for item on Google Worldwide, even beating Larry King on the day of his announced retirement.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many of those searches came from people who just happened to see my name from your posts and went to Google to figure out why so many people were saying it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Reddit, in a matter of less than twelve hours, you shifted the search behavior of the entire internet.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In much the same way.

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[SPEAKER_03]: As a major geopolitical event, at least tens, if not hundreds of thousands of searches were done, for a search term that prior to that point had few if any searches.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Enough searches were done to result in the automated creation of over two hundred thousand new web pages containing my name.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many of these pages were automatically created by companies that create content pages designed to rank high for popular search terms.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The overall effect has been brute force nullification of the web page containing the line.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And here we are on July fourth.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Finally, after five years, that lie is completely gone from the first five pages of search results on Google and all other search engines.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and it seems to be dropping more every day.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Further, many other pages containing my name, now rank high on Google, including automatically generated pages that have nothing to do with me, as well as pages about other individuals who share my name.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing negative therefore stands out against me.

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[SPEAKER_03]: For five years, I've had to live with this stigma of this lie.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I have had to explain it to friends, family, and business associates.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I no longer have to live with that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you to everyone on Reddit who helped.

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[SPEAKER_03]: A proud Reddit user left this comment in response.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think one of the main reasons people were so willing to help is the fact that you have given your time to help so many people here to learn programming for free and you're not just some random account to ask for help.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You have given up your free time to help people on here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Time that could have been spent with your family and friends.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In a small way, every person on here that you help feels like family and friends.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The internet would fight for you, Carl.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Just like they would fight for any cause they will even.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Any charity they felt connection to.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Anyone who needed help was genuinely a nice person.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In two thousand fourteen, Carl Philip Harold.

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[SPEAKER_03]: was arrested for his involvement of a child's sexual abuse material ring.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The person used to create this material.

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[SPEAKER_03]: was Carl's son, his nine-year-old son.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You see, Carl separated his son from his wife, who lived in a different state.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And Carl, living in Alabama, found several other men, and they kept his son out of school.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Never let him leave the house.

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[SPEAKER_03]: in produced abuse materials, so violent, so awful, so horrific that investigators had a hard time finding the child at first because none of them could watch the material for very long.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They struggled to place the child and build a case because the content created was that violent.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're talking investigators through up

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[SPEAKER_03]: and had nightmares and had to seek therapy.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Do the videos produced by Carl Philip Harold.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Him and his partners produced enough images and videos to create a small child abuse material ring in their area where they sold these tapes online or I should say videos.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And eventually they were all busted via a sting, but Carl

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[SPEAKER_03]: would not see justice.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In shame, he hung himself in his prison cell.

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[SPEAKER_03]: On November third, two thousand fourteen, the members of Reddit, particularly the ones that were a part of Carl H. Programming's Reddit page, were horrified.

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[SPEAKER_03]: First there was shock, then denial,

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[SPEAKER_03]: acceptance, and then they turn their back on Carl H forever.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's become somewhat of a Reddit boogie man, someone that's mentioned in Hushed Whispers.

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[SPEAKER_03]: His name sometimes shows up in Reddit comments, warning people that, even if a Reddit user seems like a good, kind man, there may be a monster lurking behind that account.

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[SPEAKER_03]: His son, Carl H is son, was exposed to STDs.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And investigators said that the son needed to be placed in a media protective custody because he was racked with mental illness and needed immediate help from medical professionals.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I hope that wherever he is, he has found some semblance of healing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Though I must admit, man, nine years of that is a lot of damage.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I can imagine that as a lot to repair.

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[SPEAKER_03]: My heart goes out to him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Some of the fallout material that I've discovered digging through old Reddit pages and the internet archive is interesting.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I've gathered a few Reddit comments, posts, et cetera, some deleted, some not that I want to read here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Nine years ago, a user Rick AJF posted this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think I knew Carl better than most folk on here, but I didn't see this coming.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I got busy with life.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I lost contact with him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Around the time he started up these programming tutorials.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I only recently found out about what he did do his son.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And that he's not in this world anymore.

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[SPEAKER_03]: One of the biggest shocks of my life.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure a lot of people here will remember him as a monster.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And if he did even have the stuff I've read about, he certainly was.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But what I remember of him is so different.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I first talked to him on chessclub.com, about fifteen years ago, when he was starting click-alizer up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl wasn't twenty yet, and I was still in my early teens.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When I told him about my depression and troubles making friends,

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[SPEAKER_03]: He gave me his phone number.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I talked to him for hours on end about religion, programming, and just life.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I lived on the other side of the US, so we never actually met in person.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But for a young and socially inept loner like me, he was one of my best friends.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The conversations I had with him shaped so much of my wife.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's a big part of why I majored in CS and college.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And why I eventually became an atheist.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He helped me grappling with a lot of tough issues I had during my teens.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Carl always did sound like he had some serious family problems, was living on his own from early on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When he married his wife, he was still a religious guy, but that marriage was a disaster.

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[SPEAKER_03]: According to him, she developed serious mental issues soon after their son was born and pieced down, leaving him as a single father.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He never gave me any hint that he was gay or that he would do anything that could harm his son.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Everything he said made it sound like he loved his son, more than anything in the world.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It really boggles the mind.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he wasn't telling me the whole truth, and maybe I didn't know him as well as I thought.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I can't help but wonder if I could've stopped him, if I'd kept in touch.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what happened to him during his last years, and I know he's not here anymore.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But Carl, I'm sorry it had done this way.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry I couldn't help you avoid this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Another user, E Davis, and this to say, I once did a phone interview with Carl H for a part-time job.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We connected after he posted on our programming, looking for help with his web analytics company.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Within five minutes of talking to him, I started to feel uneasy.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Something about him just fell off.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In particular, I remember him really bragging about how smart and accomplished he was.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I brushed him off a few months later.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The job wasn't scheduled to start for a while.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I said I was no longer interested.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I guess the moral of this story is to trust your God.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Listener, Carl's ready history is full of interesting and even contradictory moments.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He was a supporter of the Westboro Baptist Church and had this to say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Personally, I know that God is judging America for its sins, and that more and worse is coming.

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[SPEAKER_03]: My doctrinal beliefs are the same as those of the Westboro Baptist Church that I have seen thus far.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This is Rich considering why he ended his life over.

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[SPEAKER_03]: the monstrous ax he committed.

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[SPEAKER_03]: At the same time, he once saved a person's life in a suicide watch subreddit.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many of the comments I've read concerning Carl, are those that are conflicted?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many say that they owe their career to a monster, and it really shows the conflicting nature of humans.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that we could be so good to people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, horrible to others.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure many of those users have been left with a feeling of uneasiness.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That uneasiness I started the episode talking about.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We don't have magic powers that shows us the horror that lurks beneath.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We don't only do our best, and hope that whatever front facing person that each individual is showing us is the truth.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Not all of us are that lucky.